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Listen: ‘The Day My Family Changed Forever’

How does divorce affect children?

An illustration of a child wearing a pink floral dress lying on the floor. Her arms and legs are wrapped around the feet of two people who appear to be walking away from each other.

By The Learning Network

“ The Day My Family Changed Forever ” is a 24-minute Modern Love podcast that explores the impact of divorce on children. It features Natalie Muñoz, a high school senior, reading excerpts from her Modern Love essay published in 2021 and discussing her struggle with the reality of her parents’ divorce. “Processing a parents’ divorce for any child, but especially for an only child, is a lot like going through the stages of grief,” she wrote in her essay.

Listen to Modern Love: The Day My Family Changed Forever

The youngest modern love essayist shares a story of divorce from the child’s perspective. and then we hear from listeners about the moment their parents’ divorce became real for them..

This transcript was created using speech recognition software. While it has been reviewed by human transcribers, it may contain errors. Please review the episode audio before quoting from this transcript and email [email protected] with any questions.

For “The New York Times,” I’m Anna Martin.

Love now and always.

Did you fall in love?

Just tell her I love her.

Love is stronger than anything.

For the love.

And I love you more than anything.

(SINGING) What is love?

Here’s to love.

Today on “Modern Love”—

We ended up sitting on a bench outside the bakery, and that’s where he told me. I never went back to that bakery. They also had bad service, but it was mostly the divorce thing, I would say.

Stories about divorce —

When my dad started sleeping in the basement, I didn’t think much of it at the time.

— from the people who had no say in it —

I was seven when I realized that my parents were divorced. I knew that we would never be a family again.

— the kids.

But I would just ask, like, well, whose house are we going to? And whether I was asking my mom or my dad, I would be like, darn, even though I was lying to them, because I wanted to be with both of them, but just to emphasize, like, I’m sad leaving you.

Everyone processes this kind of change differently.

Everyone wants to believe that their parents can end up together.

I wasn’t surprised. I just was at peace.

But it leaves an impact.

All those years later, it hit me again when I had my own family and, suddenly, things were hard and onerous.

We asked “Modern Love” listeners to share the moment you knew your parents were really getting a divorce. And we’re going to hear more of your stories about what that moment meant to you later on in the show. But first, Natalie Muñoz is 18 years old now, and she has the distinct honor of being the youngest person to ever write a “Modern Love” essay.

Natalie, how old were when you wrote your essay?

It was July of 2020 — was when I started it. So I had just turned 15.

15. OK. Can you read some of your essay for me?

Of course. “I refused to accept that my parents’ divorce was happening. I would drag my feet when my mother or father went to open houses and real estate agents’ offices. I truly believed that I was going to get home that night to them making dinner together in the kitchen. They would smile and say, sorry we worried you, sweetie, but everything’s fine now.

It wasn’t until they each had bought separate houses and sold half of our furniture that I realized this fantasy was never going to turn into reality. And as soon as this two-house life became permanent, my hope quickly turned into envy. I would see my friends at the end of the school day greeted by both parents. And during the sixth-grade science fair, I had to transport my unfinished volcano from one house to the other, but the other kids could leave theirs untouched and permanently installed in their basement or garage, waiting to be worked on again.”

Mm. I can almost see you carting that volcano from home to home. That must have been tricky.

Yeah, and I think it caused me to procrastinate on it, because I remember it wasn’t done until, like, the night before.

Did it look good when you ultimately finished it?

Yeah, I thought it looked really good, and it worked.

That’s very impressive. OK. So tell me about a typical weekly schedule in the early years of your parents’ divorce. What did it look like to live between your mom’s house and your dad’s house?

My parents chose to do 50/50. So 50 percent of the year, I spent with my mom. 50 percent of the year, I spent with my dad. And what that means, specifically though, is a couple days at one house, and then I would switch every Sunday. And it’s knowing that you’re going from one environment to the next, and there’s things that you say in this house or you do in this house that you don’t do in the other house, for whatever reason.

You know, at my mom’s house, I wasn’t ever allowed to eat in my room or something like that, and my dad’s house — he, like, doesn’t really care. And so it’s little things like that, where it’s like, oh, you kind of sometimes have to stop yourself, or like, oh, I want to go get a snack and eat dinner, and I’m like, oh, wait —

Wrong house.

How would it feel when you, like, did those things?

It was a little jarring, and also just a little like making a stupid mistake. It makes you realize that there is this definite line.

Mm, very distinct. You said that it was like a stupid mistake. Did you feel like you were doing something wrong when you did something in one house that you weren’t supposed to?

Sometimes. Sometimes it was like I should know better. Because I feel like I should my parents better. Like, I should know that that’s the expectation.

I often feel that kids going through divorce sometimes don’t get the grace that they maybe deserve or the slack they maybe deserve. I think you look at, like, divorce statistics, and everyone is like, oh, half of marriages end in divorce, and so therefore, that kind of serves as justification for, like, oh, well, kids are so used to it, because it happens so often, means that it shouldn’t be that big of a deal. But I don’t think you can diminish something just because it happens a lot.

Yeah. Ugh, I’m just thinking about, you know, younger you carting this volcano from house to house. I mean, that’s a lot of responsibility. It’s a lot to keep track of even, kind of, purely logistically. To go back to this switch day on Sundays at 10:00 AM, you had to make sure you had all your stuff with you, right?

Yeah, that’s still a battle I’m fighting.

Really? Tell me more about that.

Think about when you go on vacation and you leave something at home. Think about how hard — like, how annoying that is, right? Like, I’ve done that. I remember I was somewhere and I left my swimsuit at a hotel.

And I was going from one city to the next, and I needed that swimsuit. And so it’s like, imagine doing that, but imagine, if I forget my laptop charger at my mom’s house, I can’t do my homework. I think I remember crying, because I was in middle school or something, and I was going to be allowed to go to the mall without my parents, with just my friends.

Yeah, that’s huge.

And I wanted to wear this very specific, like, Abercrombie & Fitch shirt, and I left it at my dad’s house or something, and I couldn’t get it. And it doesn’t seem like a big deal, but this is my shirt. Like, why can’t I have it? Because I own it. Like, why can’t I use it?

Was there some anger there? Like, I’m hearing a little bit of anger in your voice.

Yeah, I mean, it does feel angering at times, because it’s like, people will make the argument, like, just buy two of everything. Well, that’s not possible, right?

I was excited to present myself in this way, and I can’t now, and that’s really disappointing.

It’s not about the shirts. It’s about your sense of who you are.

Yeah. So OK, you wrote your essay when you were 15 years old, figuring out how to live between your mom’s house and your dad’s house. But now, you’re 18, which is huge. Because it means you’re not legally bound by your parents’ custody agreement anymore. What does that open up for you? What does that allow you to do?

I’m not bound by that agreement anymore. If I decided, hey, I want to go on this vacation with my mom, I don’t have to ask my dad for permission, per se. I would let him know, because I want to be respectful of his time and his feelings, but the reality I’ve come to is that you can’t split yourself into equal pieces with people.

It may not be a 50/50 split anymore, and that’s going to be OK. It’s like a triangle. It’s like, what is my mom’s life doing? What is my dad’s life doing? What is my life doing? But I think I’m the peak of the triangle, and I’m trying to prioritize myself a little bit more. You know, I wasn’t able to celebrate my dad’s 50th birthday with him, which —

Oh, really?

Yeah, it just didn’t work out. And that’s really hard, but you can’t be everywhere at once. And that’s something that I think I’ve had to learn the past nine years. You cannot be everywhere at once.

You’re going to college soon, right? And then, you really won’t be around. You’re a high-school senior, 18. Have you decided where you’re going to school?

I just committed this week to UCLA.

Oh, my god!

Cognitive science.

How will going to college, going to UCLA, change your living situation?

So I’ll be moving there. And I think I’m mostly scared, because I explained to my mom, because she was saying, like — she’s like, you’re an only child, and I’m worried that you will not be used to living with other people, like in a dorm, like roommates.

And I explained to her. I was like, but it’s going to be so nice to have one key, right? Like one bed, one key. It’s something that I’ll be able to say, like, no matter what kind of day I’ve had, I know I’m going to come back to my dorm and be in the same bed every day.

Natalie, thank you for talking to me today.

Thank you so much for having me on. It means so much that even anyone would want to talk to me about this stuff.

I could talk to you for 14 more hours, but I don’t want to eat up your spring break.

14 more hours.

After the break — your stories.

I wanted to talk a little bit about when I realized that my parents were divorced.

The moment I realized —

The moment I actually realized that my life had changed for good —

Everything’s going to change for good.

The divorce was real.

When it truly hit home was when my dad finally moved out.

— a kid on the playground, and he yelled out, my mom read it in the paper.

My mother moved from her bedroom with my dad —

Yeah, that day that my grandpa came to pick us up from the after-school program and told us that our parents were in court.

We weren’t supposed to hear the argument. I was in the other room with my girlfriend at the time.

And my mom was not at my graduation. That was when it really hit me.

I’m Soraya. I live in Sacramento, California, and I am 17. I was either 12 or 13 when my parents got divorced. So the day my dad told me that he was leaving us, my mom looked very upset and had clearly been crying.

And my dad looked just solemn. So he told us that they were going on a break or something. And my sister immediately ran and hid. And I just stood there and challenged him. I was like, why would you leave? Why do you think it would work better if we weren’t a unit?

So I decided that I had to do something to get him to see and hear me, and so I went downstairs. I pull out this massive, red Nerf gun, and I strapped this gun, like, around my waist. I — you know, just a few months before, we were having Nerf gun battles all over the house.

And I just thought that if the tears weren’t enough, if the words weren’t enough, then seeing his child carry this enormous Nerf gun and say, if you don’t stay, then I’ll shoot you with Nerf bullets — and I pushed my dad into where we do the laundry, put my back on the door, and said, you can’t leave, you can’t leave, because — just stay and talk it out. Like, it’s not that hard.

And my mom was just like, in Farsi, please, just let go. It’s going to be OK. Just let go. And I hate letting go, so if my mom told me to stop, then I had to let go.

My name is David Scott. I live in Columbus, Ohio. The moment I realized my parents were divorced, I was 11.

I was 12 years old when my parents divorced.

13 years old.

16 years old.

My senior year of high school.

Two years ago, when I was 31.

My father had abandoned us. And then, one day, he and his mother and my grandmother walked into our house in Columbus. And I’ll never forget his voice saying, Lucy wants to get a divorce, referring to my mother. I’ll never forget the sound of his voice. That’s when I knew.

My name is Nicholle Harrison, and I live in Rome, Georgia. My parents got divorced when I was eight, going on nine. One day, I was at my father’s house. It was a beautiful, sunny day. I can remember the asphalt being hot, and my father sitting next to me and saying, so I need to ask you, do you want to live with me or your mother?

And I think at that moment, I — all of a sudden, the problems of the adults became my problem. And I can remember losing my breath and my stomach just dropping, thinking, if I choose him, my mother will be so hurt, and if I choose my mother, this man — I’m going to hurt his feelings. And I thought of my little sister, and I thought of my home, my bedroom, my stuff, and it was with my mom.

And I said, I think, Mom. And then, I remember the coldness. And I can remember, at that moment, feeling hot in my throat and just realizing my relationship had changed with him. And he just got up and walked away. And I was left sitting there, in my bathing suit, on a towel, on a really hot summer day, and my whole life had changed.

This is Clay from Toronto, Canada. The moment I realized that my parents were really divorced was probably about six to nine months after they actually got divorced. My mom and I were living alone in the house, and my girlfriend, now fiancé, and I went out for dinner.

Midway through dinner, my mom calls me and tells me that her closest friend in the world just dropped dead in her home. And ended up driving my mom to her friend’s apartment, and there were police cars there, and caution tape, and everything like that. My mom was hysterical, bawling her eyes out, of course.

And she gets out of the car, and it was at that moment that it all just snapped into place for me. Like, here is this responsibility that’s, kind of, now on me to consider how my parents are feeling. This past chapter in my life of being a family and feeling together is now gone, and this new kind of chaos has started.

I typed in Mom and Dad’s house to Google Maps —

And I went on autopilot, and just started driving back to my dad’s place.

— and I realized, in that moment, that it’s actually not Mom and Dad’s house anymore. It’s actually just Dad’s house.

And I realized that I was actually supposed to go to my mom’s that night.

And the question always, for me, to this day, is where is home? Because my home will always be split.

My name is Anne Albright, and I grew up in Bedford, New York. I was nine years old in 1964, and one of the biggest things on the front page of the newspapers was the fight between Cassius Clay and Sonny Liston. We know Cassius Clay today as Muhammad Ali.

But this was a boxing match of unparalleled status. And seeing a newspaper that said, “Clay versus Liston,” made a big impact. Because one was going to be a winner, and one was going to be a loser. That’s the whole point of something like versus. Someone in the boxing match was going to end up on the ground, and someone was going to end up with a raised fist.

I was home from school one day. And the thing I loved about the kitchen in the house where I grew up is that it had a linoleum floor, dark blue, with white swirls in it. So it was very common for me to get the wicker laundry basket and sit in the middle of the kitchen floor and pretend I was at sea.

And the kitchen phone was Mom’s base of operations. So it was a very familiar scenario for me to be puttering around in my wicker basket while she was on the phone in the kitchen. And on this particular day, my mother was sitting, talking to her attorney.

And spread out in front of her were all the papers from the separation agreement. And I walked over to see what she was looking at, and I saw her name versus his name. I mean, I still remember my stomach falling.

I did not want them to be Clay and Liston. There was a brutality to versus, that it was like an earthquake. I couldn’t imagine why people who were parents would be that adversarial.

The moment that I realized my parents were really divorced was six years before they actually got divorced.

I really don’t remember my parents ever getting along.

Knowing that my parents were not meant to be together —

My parents are two completely different people, and to say I could never imagine that married is an understatement.

My parents’ relationship showed me what I didn’t want.

They were miserable.

And it all started to make sense — the griping, the fighting, the disconnection. And I was like, oh, OK, my parents are going to get divorced eventually.

I felt mostly relief.

For me, it was the first time that I realized, your parents are also just people.

My name is Dorka Pinnix. My friends call me Dee. I live in Hartsdale, New York, with my husband and two kids. My parents got divorced when I was about 13, almost 14 years old.

My parents were not a good fit. I don’t remember them really being truly happy together. We didn’t have a lot of freedom. My parents were always super concerned about us playing outside.

And my dad worked a lot of hours as a cab driver. So we weren’t allowed to go outside, and we weren’t allowed to be loud inside.

Because we might wake up my dad.

The day that my mom told me that she was going to divorce my dad, I didn’t believe that it was going to happen. I do remember the day that it became real for me was the day that we packed. And it was a tiny one-bedroom, with not even a window in the kitchen. [LAUGHS]

We were super tired, and we wanted to quit. And my mom said, you know what? Let’s just jump on the bed. And I was like, what do you mean? Let’s just be loud and jump on the bed.

And we all got up. We took my younger sister Ashley, we put her in the middle, and we just jumped around her, up and down, up and down, and just laughing and dancing. I’m pretty sure we had music on. Because of course, we’re from Dominican Republic. We have to have music wherever you go. [LAUGHS]

And it just felt really real. I felt safe. I felt happy. I felt that there was a chance for me to be me, and the past three years was just kind of a version of me, a quieter version of me. And when we moved out, and knowing that my parents were not going to be together, I felt like it was a more full version of happy me.

And that was the moment —

That was the moment —

Yeah, that was the moment I realized my parents’ divorce was actually happening.

— that life is different.

That’s when I realized.

Oh, thank you.

Thanks for listening.

Thanks for listening, guys.

Thank you. Have a good day. Night? Morning? Evening? Bye.

A huge “thank you” to everyone who sent us their stories of divorce. We really appreciate it. If you want to submit a story to “Modern Love,” you can head to nytimes.com/modernlovesubmission.

“Modern Love” is produced by Julia Botero, Christina Djossa, and Hans Buetow. It’s edited by Sara Sarasohn. Our executive producer is Jen Poyant. This episode was mixed by Sophia Lanman, and our show was recorded by Maddy Masiello.

The “Modern Love” theme music is by Dan Powell, original music in this episode by Sonia Herrero, Marian Lozano, Pat McCusker, and Carole Sabouraud, digital production by Nell Gallogly. The “Modern Love” column is edited by Daniel Jones. Miya Lee is the editor of “Modern Love” projects. I’m Anna Martin. Thanks for listening.

After Natalie’s story, we hear from Times’ listeners about the moment their parents’ divorce became real for them.

How does divorce affect children? What can we learn from Natalie’s poignant and moving story?

1. Listen to the podcast above. While you watch, you might take notes using our Film and Podcast Club Double-Entry Journal (PDF) to help you remember specific moments.

2. After watching, think about these questions:

What moments in this podcast stood out for you? Why?

Were there any surprises? Anything that challenged what you know — or thought you knew?

What messages, emotions or ideas will you take away from this podcast? Why?

What questions do you still have?

What connections can you make between this podcast and your own life or experience? Why? Does this podcast remind you of anything else you’ve read or seen? If so, how and why?

3. An additional challenge | Respond to the essential question at the top of this post: How does divorce affect children?

4. Next, join the conversation by clicking on the comment button and posting in the box that opens on the right. (Students 13 and older are invited to comment, although teachers of younger students are welcome to post what their students have to say.)

5. After you have posted, try reading back to see what others have said, then respond to someone else by posting another comment. Use the “Reply” button or the @ symbol to address that student directly.

6. To learn more, read Natalie Muñoz’s original Modern Love essay “ My Two-House, Duffel-Bag Life ,” published in 2021. Her essays begins:

I am 15 years old and an only child. People who meet me don’t usually think I’m an only child because I talk with the speed of someone who always had to compete for space in a conversation, as if I have 10 siblings. But no, it’s just me. I have grown up in California in a nice neighborhood, with good friends and two loving parents, playing outside with my father on the weekends and reading books with my mother on the weekdays. I have been alone a lot but not lonely. I never needed anything I haven’t gotten, and whatever I wish for often comes true. And all of this, I think, is why my parents’ divorce took such a toll on me. It was seven years ago that my parents came into the living room one evening and turned off the TV. I was watching my favorite show, “The Biggest Loser.” I was annoyed at first, and then confused, as they began to explain how their marriage wasn’t working out, and how they were splitting up but remaining friends. Processing a parents’ divorce for any child, but especially for an only child, is a lot like going through the stages of grief. And not to sound overly dramatic or to diminish the heartbreak of losing a loved one, but when you don’t have a brother or sister who reminds you of what life was once like, who can serve as a link from past to present, keeping at least part of the family whole in some way, there is only the harsh reality of now. The divorce, to me, felt as if some imaginary family member had died, someone I didn’t even realize existed yet held the singular role of binding our family together.

7. Join us again in two weeks on Nov. 21 when we will feature the Op-Doc video “ She Was 19 When the Atomic Bomb Dropped .”

Want more student-friendly videos and podcasts? Visit our Film and Podcast Club column .

Students 13 and older in the United States and Britain, and 16 and older elsewhere, are invited to comment. All comments are moderated by the Learning Network staff, but please keep in mind that once your comment is accepted, it will be made public.

IMAGES

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